Mark Zuckerberg’s Meta has poured over $10 billion into metaverse analysis this yr alone. What’s he spending on, and what does he hope to perform in constructing digital worlds?

He supplied some clues final week on The Joe Rogan Expertise, which is by some metrics probably the most listened-to podcast on the planet. The episode, which sprawled virtually three hours, made headlines for Zuckerberg’s feedback about his hellish morning routine and Hunter Biden’s laptop. However the interview additionally supplied perception into his method towards his tenuous, oft-ridiculed metaverse empire-building.

Listed below are a few of the main takeaways.

A brand new VR headset will arrive in October.

Meta’s latest digital actuality headset, a successor to the Meta Quest 2, will arrive in October, Zuckerberg introduced. Will probably be the corporate’s first main VR launch because the name change from Facebook to Meta final fall.

Zuckerberg says that one among his foremost priorities for the headset was to make the person “feel like you’re right there with another person.” The corporate has added elevated facial monitoring—in order that your avatar would possibly be capable of smile or frown while you do.

“There’s more nonverbal communication when people are with each other than verbal communication,” Zuckerberg informed Rogan. “When you’re on a video call you don’t actually feel like you’re there with the person. To me, what virtual reality unlocks is that it really convinces your brain that you’re there.”

Learn Extra: TIME’s First Interview in the Metaverse: How a Filmmaker Made a Movie and Fell in Love in VR

Finally, Zuckerberg desires the metaverse to be throughout us.

Zuckerberg says Meta’s new VR headset is only one cease on a “long roadmap” in direction of a future not dominated by insular headsets however augmented actuality (AR) glasses. The purpose, Zuckerberg says, is to shrink headsets to the dimensions of regular eyewear, and for individuals to work together with the world by way of augmented actuality or digital overlays. As an alternative of a telephone display screen for map instructions, as an example, your sensible glasses will merely draw a line towards the route you’re alleged to take.

“The physical world is important to our being and essence and soul,” Zuckerberg mentioned.

Precise AR shopper merchandise are nonetheless a methods off, nonetheless. Zuckerberg predicts that the primary merchandise will arrive in three to 5 years, and can “start off pretty expensive. It’ll take a while to get down to hundreds of dollars,” he mentioned.

Holograms, all over the place.

When AR know-how does arrive, Zuckerberg says that Star Wars-style holograms would be the norm. He predicts that many individuals, as a substitute of shifting to huge cities, will as a substitute “teleport in the morning to the office and show up as a hologram.” That future, Zuckerberg says, will likely be “pretty sweet” and “unlock a lot of economic opportunity for a lot of people.”

Zuckerberg additionally daydreamed to Rogan about digital poker nights, by which some associates sit bodily round a desk, and others are beamed in, and everybody performs with hologram playing cards.

Privateness points loom.

If an AR-dominated world involves fruition, then Meta can have entry to a scary quantity of footage and real-time information. Each step you took in public would doubtlessly be below surveillance. When Rogan requested if AR glasses would permit a “creep” to document individuals with out their consent, Zuckerberg admitted it could be potential “in theory.” (He defended the product by saying that at any time when a person hits “record,” a vibrant purple gentle goes on.)

Zuckerberg is aware of you hate the avatars.

In mid-August, Zuckerberg posted a selfie of his digital avatar inside Fb’s metaverse platform Horizon Worlds. It was extensively mocked for being low-quality and even “soulless.”

Zuckerberg conceded to Rogan that Meta’s avatars are “obviously not super realistic yet.” He mentioned that whereas they may enhance in high quality over time, his goal is to not construct a metaverse that appears precisely like the actual world. “I’m not actually convinced that when we have photo-realistic avatars, people are going to prefer that to the expressive ones,” he mentioned.

His near-future purpose is for VR to “eat TV.”

If Zuckerberg will get his means, then metaverse development will come instantly on the expense of the TV trade. He mentioned that individuals will ultimately be capable of view their favourite exhibits and flicks inside their sensible glasses versus on a display screen.

Zuckerberg additionally criticized the cultural dominance of the TV trade and says he hopes individuals spend time socializing in digital worlds as a substitute of watching TV.

“I want to make it so the experiences we’re having aren’t just these passive things,” he mentioned, arguing that individuals will construct extra relationships whereas socializing in VR versus watching tv. “That actually may be a net improvement in well-being for people overall. And there’s just a ton of TV time to eat.”

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